Transcription:

Laurie:
Many times during EMS Weekend, you and I get to lead groups of women, whether it's wayward or betrayed. You have a way of getting an important message to these women. Men need to hear this too. What is the message that you tell women on one of these weekends?

Rick:
I don't know that I always say it the same, but first, what you did in no way defines you, not in the least. Nothing you did makes you better than anyone else. Nothing you did makes you worse than anyone else. You have immense dignity. You need to begin to see yourself rightly, because as long as you see yourself as someone who's an idiot or a fool, you will be living in a lie. Recovery is beginning to understand your immense value and worth.

Laurie:
Shame is off the charts for both sides. Why do you think that there is an added layer of shame for unfaithful females?

Rick:
It's a mystery to me why we say that women are supposed to be up here, and if they fail or fall, we say, "Look at that," she fell. We don't see women as they truly are. To us men, they're objects to be used to help us feel better. I mean, that's a ridiculous, horrible thing that we do.

Women have immense dignity. Consider, every human being begins underneath the beating heart of a woman. That is so incredible. And yet, do we value women for what they bring and who they truly are? Why don't we see the dignity that comes from that immense value rather than thinking about a woman's sexuality? I just want us to elevate how women see themselves and how men see women.

Laurie:
Right! There are billions of dollars spent on the sexualization of women, and there are billions of dollars spent on diets, makeup, skincare—all to help women live up to a standard that is impossible.

I want to go back to a point you made, Rick, which I think is really imperative. It's the idea that there is dignity in the apology. I know when infidelity first happens, in that immediate year of recovery, there is a pretty big disparity for everyone, the betrayed and the wayward. Each has its own journey.

Yet I love the point you're making. True healing does come later! We don't even think about it anymore because many times, on the EMS Weekends, we get to lead both unfaithful wives and betrayed wives. The message still needs to be the same. There's damage done to a woman's sense of worth.

And I think that's why, as a wayward woman, there is so much more shame because it's as if we betrayed all of sisterhood with our actions.

So many out there may never get an apology. Maybe whoever has wounded them is deceased or simply unwilling to apologize. There's a profound impact you make by making an apology on behalf of those who can't or won't. It's a message that everyone needs to hear but might not get to hear. I know it really impacted me.

Rick:
When I look back on my life prior to recovery, there are two things that I loathe the most. One is my betrayal of Stephanie, which was huge. That to me, though, in many ways, because of just grace, has been redeemed and we've experienced something we never deserved.

And that's the hope, I think, for any couple going through this. It is possible to heal and not let it define you. It was something that refined Stephanie and me.

The other thing I loathe is how I used and devalued women. Women became a prop that I manipulated, used, and controlled. There were so many people in my past that I damaged, and I've gone back to make amends. But I still regret the damage I caused. I didn't cherish them. I didn't really love them. I didn't have compassion toward them. I didn't have any real understanding of what I was doing. Day after day in my office, I see women who have been damaged because they were used in this way. It makes my heart break for them.

I want to apologize to all women for the behavior of my gender. I hope you can forgive us. I don't know that we understand the impact that we have made. And that is what makes men dangerous. There is an influence or a power that we can wield. When used in a way that isn't caring, loving and protective, it's ultimately devastating. It damages people. Yet somehow, for whatever reason, we feel entitled.

So, from the bottom of my heart, I'm sorry for what we did to you.

Laurie:
Women, me included, need to hear that message. I regret the way I bought into the messaging to women, the way that I took my worth and dignity and wielded it in a way that I not only bought into the lie, but also allowed myself to be used.

I didn't act out of my own worth in creation. The damage was devastating.

I love what you're saying because I actually believe it, and I live it out now. The way I see people now is so different. I see you as a mentor. I see you as a friend. I really don't even see gender. I just see people and I see their hearts. I want to just say thank you.

To Healing